So Mike, the will of the people is to have drivers speed in a school zone. I hope you don't have children or grandchildren. Children don't think especially little ones. That is why speed cameras were placed in these school zone. It was due to speeding. No speeding =no cameras.

The will of the people who belong incarcerated.

I guess it must be the will of the people when the rear of my shed was repeatedly vandalized? Or when the Verizon/BGE/Comcast/etc. boxes are repeatedly vandalized?

In my neighborhood, vandals repeatedly take down STOP signs. Is THAT also an indication of the will of the people? Grow up Mike.

NO! How is your driving record?

On the road I lived on, just off Seven Courts, kids kept crashing into the parked cars because they were speeding and could not make the curved road. Just plain stupid!

Exactly, my friend.

So true. When the cameras are vandalized and the damage is repaired, is that at the expense of the taxpayer? If so, stupid vandals!

I've not tested the red light cameras before, but from what I've read the yellow light times are often shortened as a way of catching more revenue. There's a website dedicated to stopping this: http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/ ... I don't know much about the speed cameras, but I think they're good in construction zones considering the number of construction workers killed. The pain in the butt and slap in the face is where you see a construction zone for a year or more and little construction happening, but speed cameras regularly there. More camera action than road action it seems ... Coincidence? It's also pretty annoying when 9 out of 10 times the there's some guy getting paid in the mobile speed camera vehicles with his hat way over his eyes sleeping, texting or playing on a computer. Our tax dollars hard at work. I'm not saying I agree with what these vandals have done, but I'm just pointing out some really obvious reasons why they may. Like I said, I don't know of "intentional tricks" done to cheat people out of money for speed cameras, but apparently some people believe it to be happening in red light cameras.

Please tell me this is sarcasm.I chuckled when I read this. . .

I agree with elevating the cameras. When the cameras were installed, I thought their location was just inviting trouble.

Elevating them like in the city? You know what they do to speed cameras in the city? They shoot them with guns. Please, people DONT WANT THESE STUPID CAMERAS! Law enforcement just won't get it through their thick skulls. We should just stop doing traffic surveys and studies that show what makes roads safer because it's not like anyone actually LISTENS to them.

Put them on the ground, people will paint them, set them on fire and I still say people will start blowing them up eventually. Elevate them, people will start shooting them out with guns. The people DONT WANT THEM! You want to shove them down people's throats anyway, this is what you get and expect more of it.

Mike Fisher, I am unsure why you are so angry about these cameras. I hve two small children. One of which goes to the school across Seven Courts. This camera cuts down on the speeding and I am for it. If you actually FOLLOW THE DAMN LAW then you have nothing to worry about. It is all too often I feel like I have to fly across that road as to not get hit by a car! People are stupid. Mostly stupid people have stupid kids and those stupid kids become vandals. . .. stop raising stupid kids!

If the DAMN LAWS were more reasonable, people would follow them more and no, they don't slow people down, not even women in their 60's. I know at least a few that go 35-40 down SCD regularly right past the camera and never get flashed. They do nothing but generate revenue. If you really expected this stupid camera to make this school zone safer, then you are misguided. Crossing guards is the solution and a crosswalk, but noooo... that just makes way too much sense. Instead, let's ram speed cameras down people's throats that have been proven time and time again to be ineffective at slowing people down and make roads more dangerous. Yeah, and *I* am the one with the issues. I see things how they are and for what they are. I offered better solutions for school zones, but nooo... makes too much sense to do that. I must be out of my mind. You people go on living in fantasies where speed cameras do anything other than generate revenue and you go on thinking they make roads safer and slow people down even though every shred of evidence from around the WORLD says the exact opposite. Yeah, I'm not the one with issues. I'm sorry that rational thinking angers so many people. By all means, dream on, but I'm wide awake.

Maybe it's just bureaucratic bumbling?

My guess it was more political influence from the neighborhood. I grew up there and went to Stoneleigh in the 60's. They have quite of bit of pull in the community. There is a crossing guard at Regester and Kenleigh, but it is nowhere near the "school zone"

Sean, cars get faster and safer every year. Car technology advancements make people feel safer driving at higher speeds because today's cars are so easy to control even at 40mph. People will drive at speeds they feel are safe and that's what's going on here. These cameras were installed due to an old lady being hit by a DRUNK driver on SCD and the reaction is speed cameras? Speed had nothing to do with the accident, it was alcohol related! Artificially lowered speed limits mean people respect the laws less and less.

If they want school zones safer, do what Pinegrove, Parkville and other middle schools do. They use crossing guards and it works GREAT, that's what they would do if they really cared about safety, but they only care about raping people of every dollar they have with these stupid cameras. Is anyone really surprised they are constantly vandalized? People aren't heard, they will make themselves heard. Fight the people, the people fight back harder. Give a little and the people give a little back. Do things that make sense, people respect that. Do things that don't make sense, people respect it less. Since none of this speed camera stuff works nor makes sense or does anything other than hand out tickets for exceeding artificially lowered speed limits, people will rebel and won't respect those laws. The solution always seems to be to fight the will of the people, so again, don't be surprised when the people keep fighting back harder the more you fight the majority.

The only way these speed cameras are coming down is if people stop speeding. There is no way the powers-that-be are going to look at any particular camera's revenue, say that camera is making us too much money, and decide to take it down, or raise the speed limit.
You diehards keep on speeding- maybe it will keep my taxes down.

If that's the case, then expect more "war" between the people and the laws and expect these speed cameras to continue to be destroyed. I'm just waiting for someone to, quite literally, blow one up with a pipe bomb or something. People won't stop speeding and car manufacturers won't stop making cars that go faster, handle better, brake faster and are generally safer to drive at higher speeds. If the law wants to be stubborn and not change with the times or listen to the people who do traffic surveys for a living and KNOW that higher speed limits means safer roads (85th percentile), then expect more civil disobedience. People DONT want this in general. People are already fed up with the government, the higher taxes, inflation, lower wages and fewer jobs. People are fed UP. It's only a matter of time before things hit the fan in a major way. As I've said before, the people won't be the ones who give in.

They'll take them down if people start blowing them up or setting them on fire. They'll start taking them down if they start to become a public health hazard. Either the laws adjust to the times and technology and start to use common sense with school zones and appropriately set speed limits or the people will eventually force them to. People won't give in and they won't lose, either.

slowing down will not bring the cameras down. you forget that baltimore county has a contract with a company to operate these cameras. they owe $12,000 per month per camera on the contract. 32 operating cameras means the county owes over $4.6 million per year to the company.

Wow, 4.6M on ineffective solutions. Gotta love America. The cameras don't work, the majority don't want them, yet we waste all this money on them. Who pays? Well, we do, of course. We're forced to pay for them. Ridiculous. These cameras aren't even proven to be accurate. Government and law enforcement is just out of control. They've created this huge debt crisis and expect us to pay the tab. Screw them and these cameras. Just a waste of money.

@Other Tim's quote "
"You diehards keep on speeding- maybe it will keep my taxes down."

Thanks for making me laugh. NOTHING will keep your taxes down. Also this Orwellian method of policing where you can't face your accuser should SCARE you if anything else. I shudder to think where cameras will be when my child grows up.

If a camera stops making money, it will be moved to an area where there is a need. That is IF the speeders stop, and start complying. Ask the people that live along Seven Courts drive if they want the speed limit raised. I dare you to get a petition and go to every house on SCD. Ask the family of Beverly Moore if the speed limit is too low. She's gone from us because some selfish egotistical jerk could not slow down for 10 seconds. I wish that some of the energy that went in to venting about the cameras was spent trying to feed hungry people in this county, it would serve the public good a lot more.

There's no need to ask anyone on SCD if the speed limit needs to be raised because everyone exceeds the speed limit on SCD! There's all the answers you need and much wasted time avoided.
..but yeah, you're right, let's punish everyone because of one drunk driver. He WAS drunk, you do know that right? It was not a speeding related accident, he was DRUNK! It was a drunk driving fatality. We don't need petitions either when we have experts who do studies for a living, but I know, they don't matter. One accident on SCD and all of a sudden, speeding is this huge problem even though the accident itself was NOT SPEED RELATED! Do you realize how stupid that is? It's like having a flat tire and instead of changing the tire, you decide to replace one of your headlights to solve the problem. He was drunk, it was not speed related, yet we deal with it and talk about it as if it was the cause. Do people just conveniently forget this was a drunk driving fatality and NOT a speed related incident? Speed related incidents don't exist on SCD, yet now it's this huge issue? It's suddenly a huge issue because everyone makes it one. Speed cameras wont stop the next drunk driver from hitting someone any more than it will make people stop speeding. It has not worked in the US, it has not worked in the UK, Australia or anywhere else it's been tried. All evidence from all places suggest they cause accidents and unsafe road conditions, yet we keep asking for more. Evidence means nothing to you people.

Oops, posted the same link twice.

http://the-riotact.com/speed-cameras-are-bunk-with-poll/76042

That's the one with the poll.

"Information obtained by the Canberra Liberals shows the ACT Labor Government’s fixed speed cameras are failing to reduce accidents, with accident rates actually increasing at most of the camera locations. ACT Shadow Urban Services Minister Alistair Coe said today this is evidence of the government’s flawed speed camera strategy, which prioritises revenue over safety.

“Overall, accidents have increased by 40 per cent at fixed speed camera sites, while revenue continues to rise in the millions of dollars,” Mr Coe said.

“It’s clear that instead of installing fixed speed cameras in places that will raise the most revenue, the government should be taking an evidence based approach to road safety."

From that last site I posted. At least SOMEONE still knows what common sense is.

closer to baltimore county, carroll county deactivated traffic cameras in july at the request of the police chief because they found they were causing more serious accidents at the locations than they were worth using for safety.

Sorry. $75.

Other Tim - Where does it end? Maybe it would be a good idea to put cameras in new homes to make sure no one is committing crimes. You know because if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't affect you right? Just like if you don't speed - it doesn't apply. I have never had a speeding ticket in my life and would NEVER support these atrocities.

http://www.motorists.org/speed-limits/speed-limit-fact-sheet.pdf

http://www.motorists.org/speed-cameras/objections

not a different issue, the accidents are caused by drivers reacting to them at an unreasonable rate. from feb 1 2011 patch, the county police released report stating that the cameras had no statistical affect in reducing accidents.

Sorry, Fred. Red light cameras and speed cameras are two different issues. Maybe people do hit the brakes too quickly when they see a sudden yellow light. Speed cameras give plenty of warning for people to slow down. Not stop, just slow down.
Mike, the two websites you post are the same self- serving organization against speed cameras. Any unbiased studies out there?

The studies of: Traffic engineers, the Washington State Department of Transportation, The Institute of Transportation Engineers, The Federal Highway Administration, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the Florida Department of Transportation and speed limit brochures published by the Michigan State Patrol don't qualify as unbiased sources? Dude, seriously, you're just one of those people who aren't interested in truth and think your opinion is the only right one. These are PROFESSIONAL TRAFFIC EXPERTS who do REAL STUDIES that produce REAL EVIDENCE showing that these cameras do the opposite of what they are supposed to do AND that speed limits are TOO LOW!

Those are the facts from the experts, who are unbiased and yet you still sit here and say "No, not good enough." You would never be satisfied with anything that goes against your personal feelings and opinions, not even experts who do traffic studies for a living is good enough to override your high and mighty "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude. If you can't even accept the studies done by experts, then you'll never accept anything. At least you were civil this time during our little discussion, so thanks for that.

I'm asking for some facts. You are throwing out names. Please give me facts.

If expert studies don't qualify as facts to you, then there's nothing else to talk about.

Yeah, and those people are law enforcement officers and government officials who ignore the will of the MAJORITY of the public.

You're making too much sense Mike. ;-)

Dawn: Absolutely right.

Jeanne, the reason this vandalism happens, or one reason, is because people don't feel like they are being heard. They don't feel like they are being listened to or that their opinion means anything to LEO's or the government. People lash out, they demand to be heard. The government doesn't serve us anymore nor do they have our best interests in mind, they only want your money, every dime of it.

Maybe if the people had more of a voice, this kind of stuff wouldn't happen. It's a result of people not being heard and being pissed off about it and they should be.

if its truly about safety then the cost does not matter, unless you can place a monetary value on the life you are trying to protect. put cops where you have the cameras for the entire time that the cameras are in service and you increase safety without increasing cost dramatically.

Besides, the safety of children was the whole basis of these cameras, supposedly anyway. Crossing guards solves the problem. The 85th percentile for speed limits is what it should be, not these artificially lowered limits all over the place that no one respects or takes seriously and that isn't going to change.

Sure, I'm all for taking measures to make school zones safer with crossing guards and work zones as well, but to just assume no one is capable of driving a car faster than 30mph on an open road is absurdity. The limits are too low, that's the real issue. I know I'm just a broken record, but that's the problem. Speed limits are not set by the standards that the experts who do the studies say they should be set by. Instead, they are way too low. When it all comes down to it, it's all about taking people's money. It's just a fund raising tour, they don't care about safety or if they do, it's certainly not a priority. We don't listen to the experts who are paid to do these studies to determine the safest way to set speed limits, so why even do the damn studies at all if no one wants to listen to them? They have the answers to making roads safer, but everyone is obsessed with slowing people down instead which isn't going to happen. This is just another unwinnable war being fought with brute force vs brute force. No compromise, no yielding to the experts, they just want your money and to hell with all that other stuff.

Jeanne: Totally agree, you have to be pretty oblivious to get speeding tickets after the first few days...and the first few days no penalties are assessed.

and that is my point. its about revenue, but 95% of the generated revenue goes to the company that supplies the cameras. now that's some good lobbying with politics working at its best, or worse depending n how you look at it. baltimore counties contract was a no bid contract for this operation( cameras).

Stop committing crimes, and put them out of business.

I actually agree with that, but the problem is that through bigger government, more taxes, the tanked economy of a bankrupted nation, inflation, fewer jobs and people just not feeling like they have a voice, people are pissed off. I fear that we are too far beyond peaceful protests. I think we are much closer to civil war than we are to peaceful protests. Peaceful protests only work if someone is listening, but nobody is.

... but if you start destroying speed cameras, spray painting them or otherwise disabling them, someone is forced to listen. The situation doesn't seem very good to me overall.

First of all, taxes federally are lower then they've been in 20 years.
For all the gripes about taxes in Maryland, I don't see people leaving. Just bitching. Including the millionaires that are supposedly being driven out of the state.

The reason we're bankrupted are plentiful, and bi-partisan. THAT to me is the real problem.

Finally, some of you don't seem to really understand how good we still have it here. Believe it or not, this country is fairing (imo) much better then the rest of the world. We're actually recovering, whereas much of the rest of the world is on the precipice of double dip. Even China is struggling more then the conservative media would have you believe. The conservative media sources are every bit as bad as the mainstream ones.

Mike, you have some SERIOUS isues with authority. Driving is a PRIVELEGE, not a RIGHT. Follow the rules. You are not that important.

Yeah, so many issues that I've never been involved with the police, have no criminal record and have not had a ticket in almost eight years now. Oh yeah, serious issues with authority. If it's ok with you that cops break the law whenever they feel like it, good for you, but I don't. I don't have issues with "authority", I have issues with things that don't make sense, corruption, ignoring facts and expert studies and just flat out refusing to deny ignorance. That's what I have issues with. I want solutions that work, not a "revenue generating first" police force that does whatever they feel like doing.

When cops themselves write tickets, it's revenue generation, is it not?

Really, these cameras are doing you a favor. They just collect your money, it's a one time expense. I'd LOVE to see more cameras in this current system 'busting' me for speeding violations where it's not costing me points on my record.

They were questions intended to insult. For someone so intelligent, you sure do talk like you lack it. You open up a discussion by asking insulting questions, then get upset when they go ignored as they should go ignored.

Second, I have a job, I haven't been ticketed in eight years, I have a life and I have no criminal record, not now or ever. I don't get caught speeding, ever!.. and neither do the majority of everyone else who does it. You are the one that's angry and bitter, not me. You're the one insulting people while claiming to be so smart. You sure don't act like it.

Haha yeah, don't use the internet for any information because it puts cracks in your little fantasy world with, oh my god, evidence! Scientific studies! You really don't seem too bright to me and aren't interested in any actual proof or evidence and therefore, don't care about the truth and use insults to base discussions on. Not very smart. More like angry and bitter. Projection much?

I have had zero tickets my entire life. I have a Masters degree as well and find Mike to be stating his case quite intelligently without bragging about his degrees or insulting anyone.

I was pulled over once for a tail light being out on US-50 returning home from Ocean City in 1994. My driving record is spotless, yet I couldn't be more passionately against the use of cameras in this instance. 1984 was a scary novel in high school and it was pretty accurate - just 28 years off.

Of course it is, but people are so brainwashed and just... gone. Common sense is gone. The more I participate on this site, the more I see just how much society has degraded. I mean, people get offended with common sense! I don't even think people know what it is anymore. What the hell happened to people? We're moving backwards instead of forwards and no one seems to really notice or care very much if they do. It's kind of depressing, really. You're one of the few others on here Hank that really know what's going on and each one of you is a little ray of hope while others just seem so completely disconnected from reality that it's hard to believe they can even exist on a daily basis. It really is depressing to see how far society has fallen and how far gone so many people are.

Sorry, Hank, but she was exceeding the speed limit by 43%. She should be happy a cop didn't see her. The fine, court costs and points would have cost her a lot more. I think she should consider herself lucky. If everyone who was "flustered" in the morning drove any way they wished, people would die.

I'm not taking your bait since you have proven you are only out for blood and insulting.
I will say this about children. What do we know, for a fact, works to make school zones safer? Crossing guards, check. Crosswalks, check. Traffic lights, check. Speed cameras? They do nothing to make anyone or anything safer. They don't even make the trees on the side of the road safer much less people.

The county could have hired some crossing guards and painted a crosswalk on the ground for Seven Oaks. People have no problem stopping their car when they walk out into the crosswalk with their stop sign raised, it works for many other schools. That's what you do if you're concerned about safety. You put up speed cameras when you just want money and claim it's for "safety".

I cross Seven Courts every day, sometimes during rush hour. I see kids cross the street all the time with no problems. If your children don't know how to cross the street, that's a personal problem. My neighbors have kids, there are kids all over this neighborhood. They don't run out into the street, they're not in danger of being hit by cars. Never in my 25 years of living here have I even seen such things happen.

So, what are you so worried about? Teach your kids how to cross the street like everyone else does and things will go on as they have since this road was built. Only two people have been hit on SCD since it was built and neither were speed related. You make purely emotional comments, nothing more.

Really find it hard to believe that at 8am on a weeekday (and a school day) that there were no pedestrians in the area. Maybe she was going too fast to see them.

Use a little common sense, that's why the lane ends immediately after the entrance to the shopping center. Drivers shouldn't be in a position to be cut off, but it happens constantly anyway. Cars drive real slow in the right lane and just force themselves over into traffic with the curbing. No turn signal, nothing. I don't know where you learned how to merge properly, but that's not it. These people don't even look over to see if anyone is there, if they should speed up, slow down. That lane is there because of the gas station and the entrance which gives people plenty of time to merge over BEFORE the curbing forces them over. If people stay in the right lane, and again I've lived in this area almost my whole life, it is generally understood that the car is turning into one of the two places which in most cases, happens. In others, cars just merge over at the last second confusing drivers behind them because they don't use turn signals to let anyone know what the hell they are doing. Are you going straight? Are you turning right? Why are you slowing down if you're not turning? People have gotten better with this lately in that area, though. I haven't personally seen that stuff happening there as much. Plus there's a turn lane on the other side of the street right across from the "forced merging" area. I've seen many close calls from head on collisions because people merge and cut other cars off forcing them towards the other side of the road. It's inconsiderate.

Practice common courtesy. Drive defensively and don't assume other drivers are going to do what you expect. That is what good drivers do, and I am certain you are a good driver. Thanks.

After being cut off once and nearly a second time, yes, I now allow what I call a "moron barrier" between me and the car in front of me in the right lane. I usually cross Joppa in the right lane, then change over to the left lane once I get over there or wait to merge over if I have to. Live and learn, but it's just common courtesy that if you are in the right lane there and you plan on merging over, just simply put your left turn signal on so people behind you know what you're doing and can let you merge over in front instead of wondering what you're doing. It's just courtesy, as you said. That's all I ask of people.

The real problems with lack of courtesy surface when like five or six cars are going through that light on Belair (I said Joppa before, meant crossing Belair Road) and all going down Ebeneezer, it's even more important to use turn signals. The more information you give other drivers as to what you're doing, the better off things are especially in tight quarters like what sometimes happens in this area. I'm surprised there aren't any accidents there, but like I said, people seem to merge over a lot sooner now and if they don't, they put their right signal on and turn into the shopping center which are all good things.

Can't argue with any of that. Using turn signals is indeed a courtesy. I even signal turns when on my bike. It is just the right thing to do.

Only it's not perfectly legal to project white light from the rear of a vehicle... Fail.

Don't get much excitement at your age, do you?